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	<title>Comments on: Maven 2 vs Ant+Ivy: Our selection process</title>
	<atom:link href="http://leshazlewood.com/2008/03/18/maven-2-vs-antivy-our-selection-process/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://leshazlewood.com/2008/03/18/maven-2-vs-antivy-our-selection-process/</link>
	<description>Where Les is More</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 26 Apr 2012 02:41:36 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: A</title>
		<link>http://leshazlewood.com/2008/03/18/maven-2-vs-antivy-our-selection-process/comment-page-1/#comment-913</link>
		<dc:creator>A</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Feb 2011 22:10:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leshazlewood.com/?p=44#comment-913</guid>
		<description>lol

to all of those hating on Maven, TRY LEARNING MAVEN ... Maven uses convention over configuration, but that does not mean you cannot tweak Maven to do extremely wild things ... i have through the course of my Maven experience:
a) converted extremely complicated Ant builds to Maven (and some of these conversions required VERY creative thinking, but i still managed to get the job done in Maven, why? because I took the time to really understand the tool I was using: Maven)
b) developed wildly complex multi-module projects with very few problems, Maven is amazing at dealing with, especially, large complex projects ... again, learn how to leverage Maven so that you avoid all these pains you people keep complaining about because you never took the time to investigate the *proper* implementation of a build
c) never had to resort to using Ant hacks inside of my Maven builds, I have successfully converted *all* wild and crazy Ant tasks that I have encountered into pure Maven, using as elegant as possible of a solution that I could have with Maven (without compromising what the original Ant task performed) ... I could have given up early, like many seem to do, and just hack Ant tasks inside of a Maven POM, but u know what? i decided &quot;no&quot; i wasn&#039;t going to be *lazy*, i decided to learn the tool

the lesson to be learned here is, learn the tool, Maven is extremely powerful with its resource filtering, profiles, plugins, etc. ... don&#039;t be afraid to *learn*

Maven adheres to a standard, which is one of the reasons why I like Maven, but this standard is just a default, you can override many things, and quite elegantly</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>lol</p>
<p>to all of those hating on Maven, TRY LEARNING MAVEN &#8230; Maven uses convention over configuration, but that does not mean you cannot tweak Maven to do extremely wild things &#8230; i have through the course of my Maven experience:<br />
a) converted extremely complicated Ant builds to Maven (and some of these conversions required VERY creative thinking, but i still managed to get the job done in Maven, why? because I took the time to really understand the tool I was using: Maven)<br />
b) developed wildly complex multi-module projects with very few problems, Maven is amazing at dealing with, especially, large complex projects &#8230; again, learn how to leverage Maven so that you avoid all these pains you people keep complaining about because you never took the time to investigate the *proper* implementation of a build<br />
c) never had to resort to using Ant hacks inside of my Maven builds, I have successfully converted *all* wild and crazy Ant tasks that I have encountered into pure Maven, using as elegant as possible of a solution that I could have with Maven (without compromising what the original Ant task performed) &#8230; I could have given up early, like many seem to do, and just hack Ant tasks inside of a Maven POM, but u know what? i decided &#8220;no&#8221; i wasn&#8217;t going to be *lazy*, i decided to learn the tool</p>
<p>the lesson to be learned here is, learn the tool, Maven is extremely powerful with its resource filtering, profiles, plugins, etc. &#8230; don&#8217;t be afraid to *learn*</p>
<p>Maven adheres to a standard, which is one of the reasons why I like Maven, but this standard is just a default, you can override many things, and quite elegantly</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Maven Sucks</title>
		<link>http://leshazlewood.com/2008/03/18/maven-2-vs-antivy-our-selection-process/comment-page-1/#comment-472</link>
		<dc:creator>Maven Sucks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Feb 2010 23:29:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leshazlewood.com/?p=44#comment-472</guid>
		<description>&quot;Junior developers come in, and in 2 or 3 minutes they can get any project in their dev environment, are able to build and deploy on their devtest server, etc…&quot;

Funny, I must be a damn genious then, because apparently I&#039;m the only one on the planet who&#039;s figured out how to do this without Maven. Perhaps Maven is meant as a crutch for lazy idiots...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Junior developers come in, and in 2 or 3 minutes they can get any project in their dev environment, are able to build and deploy on their devtest server, etc…&#8221;</p>
<p>Funny, I must be a damn genious then, because apparently I&#8217;m the only one on the planet who&#8217;s figured out how to do this without Maven. Perhaps Maven is meant as a crutch for lazy idiots&#8230;</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Maven Sucks</title>
		<link>http://leshazlewood.com/2008/03/18/maven-2-vs-antivy-our-selection-process/comment-page-1/#comment-471</link>
		<dc:creator>Maven Sucks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Feb 2010 23:27:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leshazlewood.com/?p=44#comment-471</guid>
		<description>Good decision turning down Maven. Count me in the group of people who reject anything that forces the use of Maven.

MAVEN SUCKS</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good decision turning down Maven. Count me in the group of people who reject anything that forces the use of Maven.</p>
<p>MAVEN SUCKS</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Les</title>
		<link>http://leshazlewood.com/2008/03/18/maven-2-vs-antivy-our-selection-process/comment-page-1/#comment-470</link>
		<dc:creator>Les</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 14:24:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leshazlewood.com/?p=44#comment-470</guid>
		<description>@Peter

Did you read my follow up post ;)  I used both tools for a long time (I&#039;ve even written well-referenced articles and documentation for Ant), and I have changed to Maven based on what I consider to be unbiased, objective decisions.  In fact, I was very biased towards Ant+Ivy for a while, so the hurdle for me to move to Maven was higher than most.  But I did it because the benefits were just too great to ignore.  See my follow up post, referenced in the very first sentence of this blog post.

Cheers,

Les</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Peter</p>
<p>Did you read my follow up post <img src='http://leshazlewood.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />   I used both tools for a long time (I&#8217;ve even written well-referenced articles and documentation for Ant), and I have changed to Maven based on what I consider to be unbiased, objective decisions.  In fact, I was very biased towards Ant+Ivy for a while, so the hurdle for me to move to Maven was higher than most.  But I did it because the benefits were just too great to ignore.  See my follow up post, referenced in the very first sentence of this blog post.</p>
<p>Cheers,</p>
<p>Les</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Van Geenhoven</title>
		<link>http://leshazlewood.com/2008/03/18/maven-2-vs-antivy-our-selection-process/comment-page-1/#comment-469</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Van Geenhoven</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 14:11:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leshazlewood.com/?p=44#comment-469</guid>
		<description>Studies on Maven2 vs Ant+Ivy are mostly all worthless since the parties involved are next to never objective... I&#039;m sorry, but I&#039;ve read some arguments above against Maven which is plain wrong and based solely on the fact that, yeah, the learning curve is a bit steeper and documentation is not always crystal clear ... but I fail to see why you would stick with Ant (which by the way I know really well as well) + some dependency tool (e.g. Ivy), when you can have one package that does it all + much more. I&#039;ve seen Maven2 used in multiple very large scale projects in one single company... okay, they&#039;ve got 2 or 3 people dedicated to Maven2 and it&#039;s integration in Eclipse, but their environment really rocks... Junior developers come in, and in 2 or 3 minutes they can get any project in their dev environment, are able to build and deploy on their devtest server, etc...

I&#039;ve seen worse, believe me...spending days if not weeks setting up a development environment just because you want to fix a small bug...sound familiar to anyone? This happens fairly easily if you stick with ant (which I love, I say it again) which is simply not cut out for the enterprise world...

just my opinion...unfortunately, many decision makers base their choice on a biased comparison between Maven2 and Ant+Ivy...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Studies on Maven2 vs Ant+Ivy are mostly all worthless since the parties involved are next to never objective&#8230; I&#8217;m sorry, but I&#8217;ve read some arguments above against Maven which is plain wrong and based solely on the fact that, yeah, the learning curve is a bit steeper and documentation is not always crystal clear &#8230; but I fail to see why you would stick with Ant (which by the way I know really well as well) + some dependency tool (e.g. Ivy), when you can have one package that does it all + much more. I&#8217;ve seen Maven2 used in multiple very large scale projects in one single company&#8230; okay, they&#8217;ve got 2 or 3 people dedicated to Maven2 and it&#8217;s integration in Eclipse, but their environment really rocks&#8230; Junior developers come in, and in 2 or 3 minutes they can get any project in their dev environment, are able to build and deploy on their devtest server, etc&#8230;</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve seen worse, believe me&#8230;spending days if not weeks setting up a development environment just because you want to fix a small bug&#8230;sound familiar to anyone? This happens fairly easily if you stick with ant (which I love, I say it again) which is simply not cut out for the enterprise world&#8230;</p>
<p>just my opinion&#8230;unfortunately, many decision makers base their choice on a biased comparison between Maven2 and Ant+Ivy&#8230;</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Java bookmark links, Jan 2010 – Week 3-4 &#124; Bookmark-link</title>
		<link>http://leshazlewood.com/2008/03/18/maven-2-vs-antivy-our-selection-process/comment-page-1/#comment-468</link>
		<dc:creator>Java bookmark links, Jan 2010 – Week 3-4 &#124; Bookmark-link</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 01:16:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leshazlewood.com/?p=44#comment-468</guid>
		<description>[...] 1. Les, Maven 2 vs Ant+Ivy: Our selection process. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 1. Les, Maven 2 vs Ant+Ivy: Our selection process. [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Les Hazlewood &#187; Maven 2 vs Ant+Ivy: Revisited</title>
		<link>http://leshazlewood.com/2008/03/18/maven-2-vs-antivy-our-selection-process/comment-page-1/#comment-467</link>
		<dc:creator>Les Hazlewood &#187; Maven 2 vs Ant+Ivy: Revisited</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jan 2010 21:59:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leshazlewood.com/?p=44#comment-467</guid>
		<description>[...] received a lot of hits and discussion concerning my previous post regarding Maven 2 vs Ant+Ivy, and I&#8217;m writing a follow up post to clarify some [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] received a lot of hits and discussion concerning my previous post regarding Maven 2 vs Ant+Ivy, and I&#8217;m writing a follow up post to clarify some [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Confluence: Software Engineering Discussion</title>
		<link>http://leshazlewood.com/2008/03/18/maven-2-vs-antivy-our-selection-process/comment-page-1/#comment-466</link>
		<dc:creator>Confluence: Software Engineering Discussion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jan 2010 18:57:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leshazlewood.com/?p=44#comment-466</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Meeting Topics&lt;/strong&gt;

Setting up a Maven repository  What is Maven? Maven Homepage</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Meeting Topics</strong></p>
<p>Setting up a Maven repository  What is Maven? Maven Homepage</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Shriniwas Joshi</title>
		<link>http://leshazlewood.com/2008/03/18/maven-2-vs-antivy-our-selection-process/comment-page-1/#comment-465</link>
		<dc:creator>Shriniwas Joshi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 10:11:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leshazlewood.com/?p=44#comment-465</guid>
		<description>Sorry for few grammatical mistakes in my response above.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry for few grammatical mistakes in my response above.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Shriniwas Joshi</title>
		<link>http://leshazlewood.com/2008/03/18/maven-2-vs-antivy-our-selection-process/comment-page-1/#comment-464</link>
		<dc:creator>Shriniwas Joshi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 10:09:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leshazlewood.com/?p=44#comment-464</guid>
		<description>We are using Maven2 for our projects (medium-to-very-large scale). I can say that we are quite happy with our experience so far.

Learning curve of Maven is very steep. The whole concept of build life-cycle can seem very hard to grasp in beginning. Also the concept of plugin is diff (though Ant has something similar : taskdef) along with concept of POM inheritance.

But once well understood, you will be surprised how you ever managed with Ant before.

Key to success of using maven for large project is divide-and-win policy and well organized POM level inheritance. In my project we build very complex artifacts using 20 line POM. That make it such a great tool.

Another killing feature of Maven is reporting plugins. They simply great in many aspects and keeps developers on their toes to fill in the exposed gaps in their code/modules.

Everything I mentioned above makes Maven great tool but at the same time can create a potentially dangerous pit. Best way to understand the true potential of Maven is to embrace it with open mind and be ready to change your prospective completely with regard to software building.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We are using Maven2 for our projects (medium-to-very-large scale). I can say that we are quite happy with our experience so far.</p>
<p>Learning curve of Maven is very steep. The whole concept of build life-cycle can seem very hard to grasp in beginning. Also the concept of plugin is diff (though Ant has something similar : taskdef) along with concept of POM inheritance.</p>
<p>But once well understood, you will be surprised how you ever managed with Ant before.</p>
<p>Key to success of using maven for large project is divide-and-win policy and well organized POM level inheritance. In my project we build very complex artifacts using 20 line POM. That make it such a great tool.</p>
<p>Another killing feature of Maven is reporting plugins. They simply great in many aspects and keeps developers on their toes to fill in the exposed gaps in their code/modules.</p>
<p>Everything I mentioned above makes Maven great tool but at the same time can create a potentially dangerous pit. Best way to understand the true potential of Maven is to embrace it with open mind and be ready to change your prospective completely with regard to software building.</p>
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